By Bryan Wish
Frank Warren is the founder of PostSecret, a community art project where he invited total strangers to anonymously mail in their deepest secrets on a homemade postcard. The response was overwhelming with Frank receiving over one million anonymous postcards and counting. The project has raised over $1,000,000 for suicide prevention and Frank Warren was awarded the Mental Health Advocacy Lifetime Achievement Award in 2011 and was invited to the White House to share his thoughts on mental wellness in 2013.
All six PostSecret books have been on the New York Times Best Seller List, with PostSecret: Confessions on Life, Death, and God reaching #1. PostSecret.com has won three Webby Awards for “Best Blog on the Internet” and is today the most visited advertisement-free blog in the world with nearly 700 million “visits”. The postcards have been exhibited at the Museum of Modern Art in New York and the Visionary Art Museum in Maryland and have been turned into a PostSecret album and play.
In this episode, Frank and Bryan discuss:
– Frank’s life-changing bike accident, and how he sees himself as oddly fortunate in hindsight
– The vulnerability people are able to display when they share something anonymously, and what we can learn from it
– How Frank’s platform PostSecret has not only changed his life, but the lives of so many people around the world
Transcript:
Bryan Wish:
Frank, welcome to The One Away Show.
Frank Warren:
It’s good to be with you.
Bryan Wish:
Yeah. It’s great to be with you. I’ll never forget, Frank, hearing about you after college, and finding your daughter on Facebook to get to you. I don’t even know how I found her, but it’s been really special to build a relationship with you over the last few years, and the fact that you’ve stayed in touch with me. It’s an honor to have you here.
Frank Warren:
Right. I feel like I’ve stayed stagnant during that period, and you’ve had this great trajectory of growth. It’s been fun to be a part of your journey.
Bryan Wish:
Oh, well, thank you. I’m glad it hasn’t just been professional, a lot of personal, too. All right. Well, this is about you, Frank. Honored to have you here. What is The One Away moment that you want to share with us, today?
Frank Warren:
Well, in thinking about it, there’s a lot of choices that could be made. The Post Secret Project is something that we can explore and get into, this idea of becoming a clearing house for the world’s secrets. The journey that’s taken me on, and what I’ve learned from that, and how it’s changed me. Another idea I thought we could also explore is a bike accident I had about, I guess, a year and a half ago. The worst bike accident I’ve ever been in my life. That came out of the blue, and kind of changed my life like this, as well. I’ll let you decide. We can explore Post Secret, and those ideas. We can take a look at something that’s not an accomplishment, but more of an accident that had very surprising results. I think about it a little bit differently. That, also, kind of connects to, maybe, my worst traveling experience. Anyways, I’ll put all this stuff on the table, and let you navigate us through this journey.
Bryan Wish:
Okay. Now, you’re making me think like an engineer, trying to fuse together three things, but, hey, I think we can do it. Let’s see where we go, and see where we land, and see who we can entertain along the way. This bike accident that you had, take us there. Where was it? What mile were you on, if you remember, of the journey, or trek, and what happened?
Frank Warren:
Well, let me back up a little bit, and tell you that I’ve always been this kind of sensitive person. With that comes, I think, a certain level of anxiety just, in general, in life. Then compounding that with Post Secret was seeing people’s, and continuing to, most challenging secrets every day for 17 years. I feel very fortunate that I get to do that, but at the same time, it does become burdensome at some times. One of the medicines that I’ve found for my soul is endurance exercise. Believe it or not, Brian. I swam for 1,700 meters, today. Just two hours ago. Yesterday, I went for a 25 mile bike ride. Almost every day I do something physically that leaves me so drained I can’t hold any anxiety or tension. The body won’t let me, physically, do it. Yeah. It’s a way I’ve been able to get through life, and through this project. I embrace it. It’s part of my identity.
Frank Warren:
With that background, I have a road bike, and I ride, typically, every other day in my neighborhood, maybe 20 miles, maybe 30 miles. Sometimes longer. On this ride, I had gone probably 30 miles. I was coming back. Came down this very steep hill. It was actually a road in San Clemente. I went to transition onto a curb, and I went up this sidewalk skirt. It had a little lip. A normal lip is like an inch, here, in California. This lip was like two inches, and I was going maybe 22, 23 miles per hour. I went to do a bunny hop, right up, because I was hitting it diagonally, and I didn’t get my front wheel high enough. I hit it, and I just fell down immediately. The bike just went out from underneath me. I went down so fast, I couldn’t get my hands up to brace the fall. I just landed right on my shoulder, my head, and my pelvis. My helmet saved my life.
Frank Warren:
The impact on my shoulder shattered my shoulder blade. My, is it scapula? Then I also fractured my pelvis. I was there on the sidewalk. My phone, and everything, was just all over. Within about five minutes, there was a handful of cyclists who had stopped to help me out. One took the phone, and was helping me with my bike. This woman, she was calling my wife, because my wife was nearby. This is kind of a funny part of the story. My wife’s nickname is Consuelo. On my phone, the speed dial says Consuelo. She picked up the phone to call my wife, and I said, “First thing, please let her know that I’m okay.” I knew my wife, hearing a stranger calling her from my number, would concern her. So, she did. The very first thing she did was, she asked, “Hello? Is this Consuelo?” My wife’s name is Jan. We got in the ambulance, went to the hospital, and that was the beginning of the ordeal.
Bryan Wish:
Wow, wow. Frank, you may have told me this, but I don’t remember. That is horrific. I am, first, so glad that you’re okay. And two, what a, I’m sure, shocking moment, and painful moment, for you to go through. Before I ask, maybe, what happened after that, you said something that I want to lean into a little bit. You talked about this anxiety, and the way the body was. Then finding endurance as a way to maybe release it, and drain it, and get it out. How did you find long endurance sports as a way to get rid of the anxiety, or release it? How was that process for you? When did you realize, maybe, this could be a helpful aid for you?
Frank Warren:
Interesting question. As you were asking me, I was thinking back in my mind, “When was the first time I kind of made that connection?” I would have to say it was at college. I can remember being very nervous for a test I had to take in astronomy. I remember, before the test, going to these stairs, and just running up and down the stairs of this building for, maybe, I don’t know, 10, 15 minutes, and exhausting myself before that test so I could not have a heart rate that was beating like a rabbit.
Frank Warren:
When Post Secret got started, there are six Post Secret books. With every book, they send you out on a book tour, if you’re lucky. I was so nervous about public speaking, I had to take beta blockers to keep my face from turning red, just to give me the ability to focus on what I wanted to say, instead of all the anxiety that goes along with public speaking. There was that. Then just, after giving dozens and hundreds of book talks and live Post Secret events, that kind of exposure helped me with this. To this day, I still depend on endurance exercise as a medicine, as well as, my family also is a big help in trying to eat healthy, and a number of other things.
Frank Warren:
Maybe the peak of this was when I competed in Escape from Alcatraz, not too far from where you are now, where you start on Alcatraz Island, swim to San Francisco, ride your bike for, it must have been, 30 or 40 miles, and then run, maybe, 10 miles after that through the city in San Francisco. I did triathlons for a while, but now that I’m almost 60, I can only focus on the swimming and biking part. That’s enough.
Bryan Wish:
Well, I’m thrilled you found it. Frank says he’s 60. If you could see what I see, it looks like a man/Wolf in his mid-forties. Well, Frank, as a friend, I’m glad that you have an outlet. I know what physical release can do for the mind. The fact that you can do it for that long, I think, I’m jealous of, more than anything. Frank, take us to through that accident. It sounds like your world was flipped upside down. Woman calls your wife, on the side of the street. You’re rushed to the ambulance. Were you kind of knocked out? What was going racing through your mind, in your head, when this happens?
Frank Warren:
Yeah. Well, one of the weird things that happened, that I still remember, is when I slammed the sidewalk, it really took me out of my everyday life, out of my routine. Everything on my calendars, schedule, this disappears. All my priorities disappear. I’m just so focused. There was kind of a sense of peace, there, almost like escape. That was kind of wild. In the ambulance, I could start to feel the pain. You know? I couldn’t walk at that point. I was feeling it in my shoulder. Then, at the hospital, the pain got more severe. We had X-rays, and MRIs, and got a diagnosis. From this point forward, everything seemed to be so fortunate, looking back on this. The way my scapula cracked, it didn’t need to be reset. It was just a pressure impact that snapped it. Same thing with the pelvis. My pelvis, just like everybody’s, is like a figure eight. If you fracture it in two places, it falls out of alignment. Mine was just cracked in one. Again, no need to
Bryan Wish:
Wow.
Frank Warren:
… position it, or hold it, into position. Because of my background in cycling and swimming, I felt like I was in pretty good shape when it happened. As soon as I got out of the hospital, I was floating in pools. I was kicking across, back-and-forth. I was trying to run in place
Bryan Wish:
Wow.
Frank Warren:
… suspended in water. I really took a proactive position in trying to recover. As you mentioned earlier, I leaned into this. I really kind of took it as a challenge, and wanted to face it, and kind of dance with it. I did have a fast recovery, not as fast as I wanted.
Frank Warren:
Two weeks later, I was on a plane flying to Poland for an event that I was connected to. This was another interesting experience. As you can imagine, Brian, I’ve been in many airports, many times, as a tourist, as a business flyer. It’s almost like a second home. This time going to the airport, I had to call in advance. I had to get a wheelchair. I was dependent on somebody else pushing me through the whole airport. People were looking at me differently in the airport than I’d ever been looked at before because I was in this wheelchair. When I got on the plane, I was the first person on the plane. They let me on early. I got out of the wheelchair. I had crutches. I went to my seat. It was very difficult. I sat down in the middle seat. Then somebody else got on the plane, and they started walking towards me. I was, “Is this guy going to be sitting in my row, too?”
Frank Warren:
Sure enough. The plane’s empty. He turns in my row, and he’s got the window seat. He asks me if I can get up. I said, “Yeah. I can get up, but I’ve got a broken pelvis can you…” He said, “I’m hurt, too.” That just flipped everything for me because my condition was going to get better, but his condition was going to get progressively worse.
Bryan Wish:
Wow.
Frank Warren:
In that second, I had been feeling like a victim, feeling sorry for myself on this plane, and here comes somebody else who’s in a worse position. That allowed me to feel a bit more grateful for my condition. Then, getting to the conference later on, the experience I had there, again, I feel as though what I had been through added something to the experience. I’ve been to conferences before, live events, you kind of fall into that identity. You fall into your rut. Things go smoothly. Things weren’t going smoothly at this conference.
Frank Warren:
I was at a castle that was built in the 1600s. Okay? You can imagine, there’s no elevator. All the stairs were circular, going up like a turret. None of the step lengths were standardized. Here I was, on crutches. I had to become very aware and intentional about my time, there. It became an interesting source of conversations. At one point, somebody asked me if I was in any pain. My first response was to say, “I’m in just the right amount of pain.”
Bryan Wish:
Mm. Wow. Frank, that’s pretty deep on a lot of levels, and a lot I want to pick apart. We talk about pain. We talked about [inaudible 00:13:48], and showing up in a whole new form, and maybe experiencing life in a whole new way. You said you got back to rehab really quickly, and took a proactive approach. Yet, your endurance routine was also the script. If you don’t mind, I kind of want to dive in like a surgeon, and take on a little journey, here. First question I have for you is, this experience, I mean, you’re so used to endurance sports as a way to release anxiety, and of course, you were doing rehab. Maybe, that normal routine and maybe, that full ability to release, maybe, was inhibited. How did you navigate that period until you were able to kind of fully get back to a sense of health where you could release?
Frank Warren:
Yeah. I felt like I had this challenge that had come from the outside, not from the interior. I felt like I could focus and direct my energy towards that. The event took me out of my everyday routine. That was helpful. I had all this family and friend support. I think it took me out of my normal, everyday life in a way where I didn’t have that same need for endurance exercise.
Bryan Wish:
Got it.
Frank Warren:
I was doing what I could, as well. A week in, I’m on crutches. I’m doing what I can with crutches, and that can be exhausting in its own way.
Bryan Wish:
Got it. Maybe, the focus could maybe be self-focused on one thing to recover it, and then we feel some of the other angst of life. Okay. Interesting.
Frank Warren:
Yeah. It’s a weird idea that popped into my head. There’s this theory about addiction, where it raises these questions. “Why is it when soldiers went to Vietnam and were experiencing hard drugs, heroin for example, and they come back to the US, and they’re addicted to heroin? Why don’t other people have that same experience when they’re injured, and they go to the hospital, and they’re given opium for a week?” One of the ideas is that if you’re taking pain relief from a position of being a healthy individual, that is, you have a good social life, you’re physically fit, you have some spiritual moorings, that’s a very different place than if you’re taking drugs from a lifestyle where you’re at war, and you’re fearful for your life, and you have way elevated levels of anxiety, and none of your support group is around. Maybe this was the case for me, too, where, because of the very particular circumstance that I was in, I didn’t have the same needs for endurance exercise, and other strategies to get through high anxiety.
Bryan Wish:
Fascinating. Wow. I love the story. Interesting connection. Yeah. Frank, I also wanted to touch on something you said, too, about being on an airplane, and being in the wheelchair, and seeing someone else in a seat of deeper pain. Like you said, a pain that is going to get progressively worse, where yours is actually going to get better. As you, maybe, reflect on that period, and maybe, just life lessons, I mean, what did you, maybe, learn about yourself through this experience about pain, and about suffering, and showing up in a wheelchair, being guided through an airport, and being looked at differently? I mean, what were some of your takeaways from that, that, maybe, made you more empathetic towards other people?
Frank Warren:
Well, you can imagine, as I was going through this, it was frustrating. It was painful. I couldn’t do what I wanted to do. There was a lot of angst. Looking back on it, I feel like it was a really positive chapter of my life. I had all these experiences that were different, that allowed me to connect in different ways that I wasn’t able to before, during that period. It allowed me to experience more empathy at the airport, for other people who might be suffering in the future.
Frank Warren:
Here’s one thing that came out of it that was kind of surprising. In the US, we use the same kind of crutches that were used during World War II. Around the world, there’ve been advances in crutches, and that kind of technology. In Europe, for example, if someone had been in my condition, they wouldn’t have the old fashioned World War II crutches, where it fits under your arm, and you hold… They have a nice engineered piece of metal that wraps around your arm. There’s a nice piece for you to hold onto. It’s much more secure. You don’t have to be as strong to use it. You can get around much further, much more efficiently.
Frank Warren:
If people use that in the US, then the association is that that person is disabled. If people use crutches, like the football player in high school, the old fashioned kind, the association is, “Oh, this person is whole. He’s just temporarily injured.” There’s a real stigma, I found, between the idea of inability being attributed to an injury or being disabled. How people perceive that reflects quite a bit on how they see you as a person. That was one takeaway.
Bryan Wish:
Amazing. I mean, not amazing, but just, I mean, fascinating that what you’re using to show you’re injured guides the perception of what people think you’re going through. I think you’re right. It’s a bias. You see someone in a wheelchair, you think, “Yeah. Not a ton of hope for them.” You see someone in crutches, you’re, “Oh, they’re on the mend. They’ll be okay.” You’re right. It is that, maybe, perception. It’d be a fascinating story to share with your people. Wow. Thank you for the insight.
Bryan Wish:
Frank, you got injured. Let’s just kind of go back to the beginning, and we’ll wrap around. You got injured. Your endurance has been a big part of your life, the whole time. You’re learning what it’s like to suffer, and kind of show up in a new skin, and all the things that have come with it. This was relatively recent, like you said. What does the life of Frank Warren look like, today? How is it different, how you, maybe, live, and how you’re doing things based on this life-altering experience?
Frank Warren:
Well, I think it’s affected me in more than one way. One way is, when I exercise now, I’m very careful of trying not to get too tired while I’m exercising, or at least to be aware of it, because that exhaustion can lead to bad decisions, or bad physical efforts that can put you at risk. Also, in other ways, too. I try to understand how, even though that experience at the time was super challenging, and frustrating, and painful, looking back on it, I feel like it was fruitful and helpful for me, as a person, to grow. I’ve seen that expressed in other ways, too. I went on a speaking event to Oslo. One thing about Oslo, this time of year, is it was very dark. The sun would rise around 9:00, and go down around 3:00, 3:30. I had jet lag, and I wasn’t sleeping well for whatever reason.
Frank Warren:
I was waking up at 2:00, 2:30 AM. Couldn’t get back to sleep, night after night, after night. I was there for about a week, and it was rough. I remember exercising in the exercise room, there, at the hotel, at 3:00 AM. I was feeling kind of down and depressed, and trying to lean into it as much as I could. Eventually, as the week went on, I did start feeling better. It was a real special Post Secret event. I met this gentleman who gave me a nice tour of Oslo for a full day. I learned so much. Then, coming back, I felt like I had been fully refreshed. I was back at my baseline again. After that trip happened, initially, I thought, “Wow. I’ve never been so depressed on a trip before.”
Frank Warren:
Then, months and years later, I start looking back on that as a very memorable experience. I really embrace not just the highs, but also the lows. For me, that’s a memorable trip, and one of my favorites, even though, at the time, it was difficult to get through it. Maybe that’s a lesson that ties into this injury. As we’re going through those periods in our life that seem unusual, or extra challenging, or we feel more alone than ever, or emotionally we feel down, while it’s happening, if we can kind of lean in and dance with it, rather than hide from it, or try and get away from it. Once it’s behind us, we can look back on it as something that was special, that we’re thankful for. Maybe, that’s one of the lessons I learned.
Bryan Wish:
Totally. In what you’re saying, all the things that you’re sharing, what I’m hearing is a couple things. You’ve taken a journey of post traumatic growth where you’re going to look at something challenging and find the optimist, or the silver linings, within it, opposed to numbing it out. You’re going to lean into it, and really find that thing to take away, and then go and apply. I think that’s really special. Right? We live in the world where a lot of people medicate to kind of run away from things in different ways. It’s just inspiring to hear how you’ve taken on life challenges.
Frank Warren:
Well, I’m one of those self medicators myself. In fact, this is my dry January, and I’m almost to February. Again, another day-to-day challenge that, maybe, I’ll look back on a little bit differently, but it feels tough, right now. The pandemic for me, I was drinking too easily. Again, it’s something to focus in on, and try and regain some rebalance in my life. I mention it, here, to you now, because day-to-day, it’s helpful to share things like that. You know? That’s my philosophy. “Don’t keep a secret. It’s helpful to let it go to the right people.”
Bryan Wish:
I’m grateful for the vulnerability. I hope that comment, come across ignorant in any way. Yeah. The transparency. I am so glad you felt you could share that with me. I’m glad that you are taking steps in the right direction. Frank, we met through your platform, Post Secret. I was so inspired by the body of work, and what you did for others, and how you gave others a voice in your website. You took the time to meet me at the US Postal Museum in DC. I felt so grateful. I look back on that experience, and the platform you’ve built. I’d love for you to share, with our audience, who may know of it, or may want to learn more, what was the impetus for you to build such a special platform for others to write in their most daring secrets they’ve never shared publicly?
Frank Warren:
Yeah. Post Secret’s a project I started 17 years ago, inviting strangers to write down their deepest secret on a postcard, and mail it to my home, anonymously. Since then, I’ve received over a million postcards from all around the world. I’ve got a couple here. Here’s one. I’ll read this one to you.
Bryan Wish:
Yeah. I’d love that.
Frank Warren:
This one says, “My dad told me that there were no outlet malls at the end of the street. This sign…” Hold on, let me read it again. “My dad told me that there were no outlet malls at the end of the street. This sign meant, this outlet.” Hmm. I’m going to hold it up, and let you read it. I think it’s a funny one.
Bryan Wish:
“My dad told me that there were no outlet malls at the end of the street. This sign meant I believe him until I was 12.” There’s a sign that says, “No outlet,” on the street. That is funny.
Frank Warren:
No outlet malls. Here’s one I can read a little bit better, hopefully. This one says, “Dear birth mother, I have great parents. I found love. I’m happy.”
Bryan Wish:
Oh, wow. That’s so special.
Frank Warren:
Every day I’m pulling out these heartbreaking secrets, these soulful, funny, romantic secrets. It’s been an amazing journey. I’m glad you got to share part of it, there, at the Postal Museum, where we had a live event and an exhibit of many of the postcards for a few years. Now, they’re actually not too far from you, here, in San Diego, at the Museum of US. There’s another Post Secret exhibit.
Bryan Wish:
Wait, wait. Are you in San Diego?
Frank Warren:
I’m in Laguna Miguel, which is kind of between LA and San Diego.
Bryan Wish:
Okay.
Frank Warren:
When you come down to visit me for our bike ride
Bryan Wish:
That’s great.
Frank Warren:
… you go a little bit further in San Diego. You can see the postcards again.
Bryan Wish:
Okay. Let’s talk offline about that. I didn’t realize it was San Diego. I’ll be in San Diego. Anyways, we’ll talk after. I want to come back to the postcards. Frank, what I remember about that event, also strikingly similar to you just reading them, right now, is you have this, and by the way, this is the best compliment, this boyish joy reading them, this, just exuberant… It’s like your personality, I feel, transforms when you’re reading it. I’ll never forget, at the event, when you did it live. You just did it, now. It’s like your voice takes on a sense of wonder and awe when you read them, and that’s so special. You can see how alive it is for you, inside. What have the postcards meant for you? What do you feel like you have been able to cultivate within yourself by starting this movement?
Frank Warren:
Hmm. I think, by having so many people be so open, and courageous, and vulnerable with me in the Post Secret community, it’s allowed me to try and be more open with my secrets and stories, and celebrate it a bit more. I think the idea of Post Secret helps remove stigma from a lot of the things we try and hide. I think that’s very healthy for us individually, and healing for us as a community. Reading the postcards allows me to get this sneak peek into our most private and personal lives. I find that very heroic and fascinating. I think there’s so much more drama in everybody’s everyday life than we’re aware of. I also think the secrets that we think separate us from others are actually bridges that connect us to others, connect us to our past self, our deepest self, in ways that are really self-revelatory. For me, sometimes a funny one will make me chuckle. Here’s one. Well, this is a postcard with King Babar.
Bryan Wish:
Oh, wow.
Frank Warren:
Yeah. This one says, “When I was a child, I was constantly terrified that my entire life was just a story being read by King Babar to his children, and that someday he would close the book and my life would end.”
Bryan Wish:
Aww.
Frank Warren:
Just the beauty, and the openness, and the humanity of these little visual haikus is something I don’t think I’ll ever tire of.
Bryan Wish:
Oh, man. I can see why. You know? You never know what you are going to get. There’s always some message in the human experience that is revealed, and that, maybe, reveals something within yourself. I want to keep going down this angle, and I hope these questions are all right. You created a platform for people to reveal themselves, to maybe show up naked, in a way, and say, “This is who I am,” and feel safe in their way of doing it. For yourself, Frank, I’m just curious, when you started this project, did you, maybe, feel inside that you had some armor to potentially shed, too, that was secretive, that you thought that potentially you could let out by seeing other people do that? Just curious if that strikes, or doesn’t strike.
Frank Warren:
I definitely felt like I’ve had this rich interior life of inside jokes, and pain, and dreams. It’s private, personal, and sacred. It was cool to see other people kind of opening up that side of themselves, as well. I have probably written, I don’t know, a couple dozen postcards over the years. There’s one of my secrets in every book. Sometimes I put one on the website myself. It has been a way for me to let my secrets go. I think that allows us to feel a little bit lighter.
Bryan Wish:
Yeah.
Frank Warren:
Yeah. Before I started Post Secret, I was actually a volunteer on a suicide prevention hotline, hearing people’s secrets at 2:00 AM and 3:00 AM. I kind of always knew it was out there. Creating this physical space of the postcard, and then allowing people to put their secret on that placeholder and let it go physically, I think, can be cathartic, and can allow all of us to feel a greater sense of connection. That, maybe, feeling alone is a little more of an illusion than we might know.
Bryan Wish:
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I really relate with what you said about putting language to maybe darker experiences is a healing journey in itself, when you do it with others. Right? There’s, I think, a lot of science, there, that shows, and the [inaudible 00:32:42], and things that can help people overcome the pain and heal. It’s a powerful platform. Just reflecting on some of your work as I’ve done often, actually, you’ll never probably ever know the magnitude of the impact you’re having on a community of millions of people. It’s creating that safety net for them to fully be who they are. I think that is what drew me to you in the first place. Have you thought about that? Thought about
Frank Warren:
When I was a kid, I felt like I was alone with my secrets. You know? As I grew up, I realized I wasn’t. For me, that feels like the higher power of the project, to allow young people, who are oftentimes burdened with secrets no one should have to carry, to know that they’re not alone with them, that it’s okay, that people care that, that things will change, and that they get to write their own story, ultimately. Maybe, that gratification is connected to what I wish I had had when I was younger. That’s a very gratifying journey in life. If you can identify a cause of pain or distress when you were a boy or girl, and then later, through a creative venture, through art, find a way to address that, and try and heal that boy or girl you were in a way that helps young people, today. I feel really fortunate about that. You mentioned grateful. That’s the word.
Bryan Wish:
Hmm. I bet. It’s neat. Right? You took a personal pain from growing up. Not being able to have a, it sounds like, a place to share. If you don’t mind me asking, how come you didn’t feel, growing up, you, maybe, could express in a way that felt supported or safe?
Frank Warren:
Oh, I would say dysfunctional parents. Yeah. My folks divorced when I was younger, and I never really felt safe with either one of them, talking about anything deep or that would make me vulnerable. I kept a lot of things inside like I think a lot of young people do. I think that’s just the way it was for me. Yeah. You kind of grow up thinking, “Everybody has the same kind of dysfunctional family.” Then you realize, “Oh, no. Everybody kind of has a different experience someplace on that spectrum.” It wasn’t the most ideal, but crazily enough, like my bicycle accident, looking back on it, I’m kind of thankful it went the way it did. It took me on this amazing journey. Now, here I am talking to you about how I was able to create this art project that addresses some of those struggles I had when I was younger, and helps bring me meaning in the lives that I have today.
Bryan Wish:
Yeah. Right. Frank, without those childhood wounds, so to speak, like you said, you would’ve never created a platform for others. What a gift, and probably makes you appreciate your own family even more, that you’ve cultivated, it sounds like, in a beautiful way.
Frank Warren:
Yeah. I think that’s one of the epiphanies I’ve had in life. The idea that you have no choice into the family you’re born, but if you’re lucky later on, you have quite a choice as to the family you create, and how those relationships develop.
Bryan Wish:
Yeah. Wow. It hits home, the last seven months of the journey I’ve been on, but I’m so cool. I’ve never connected these dots with you like this in this way. You’re such a giver to share other people’s voices, but to hear you speak from such a personal place, I think, sheds light on what you’ve just been able to
provide for the global community, in a beautiful way. Which leads me to another question. You said, “Growing up, I didn’t have a place to share. I created this platform so others could share, and maybe I could drop some secrets in there over time, or in a book. With a big reveal.” Out of, I don’t want you to maybe isolate a single share that you’ve done, but when you reflect on some of these secrets that have come from you and the community, do any stand out that maybe impacted you, or shifted you, in a way you weren’t expecting? Yeah. I’m just curious if there was a singular share that just hit home differently.
Frank Warren:
Well, early on in the project, I got a postcard that was made out of a photograph. Someone took a picture of their broken bedroom door, and they wrote their secret right on the photograph. They wrote, “The holes in my door are from my mom. Tried to break through so she could continue beating me.” This was a postcard. I scanned and posted it on the web. That day, a million people visited the website, and I started getting all this email and correspondence. I got messages. I got pictures of other broken bedroom doors that kids were sending me, telling me their story. I got this one email from a girl. She wrote, “Dear Frank, seeing all these pictures of broken bedroom doors that you’ve been posting on the website, it hasn’t depressed me because all this time I thought I was the only one. Just knowing there are other people out there like me, who share my secret, it doesn’t make my secret go away, but it lets my burden feel a little bit lighter.”
Frank Warren:
Eventually, I saw a postcard that reminded me that when I was young, I had one of those doors, too. I really got that deep feeling from the project of how, sometimes, when we think we’re keeping a secret, that secret’s actually keeping us. There are secrets that we hide from others, and ones we keep from ourselves. Through this process of sharing with others, and sharing with ourselves, we can uncover those parts of our past that might be haunting us. That story is healthy for us, and can serve others who see it, as well. That’s an example of kind of an intermingling of a stranger’s secret, who I’ll never meet, and my most intimate secret.
Bryan Wish:
You’re truly just creating such a sense of healing, and I think, lightness for others. I think that’s just so special. I think I have the capacity to understand your work, I think, in a much deeper way, today, than I did when I first met you. I just think it’s grown, the capacity to understand something more deeply. You can understand the impact a little more greatly. It’s really special to have this chat. Frank, as you look at, I should say, the next, maybe, chapter of your life, your early 60s, look like you’re 45 off a bike ride, what do you see for yourself in the continued and lasting impact that you want to have on this world, through your platform, through other avenues of your life? What does that look like to you, if you had to
Frank Warren:
Well, the project continues to grow and evolve through the pandemic. We have a Patreon account with Post Secret, which is fantastic. People can make a financial contribution to the project, and feel like they’re more invested. It’s kind of like 1,000 fans connecting and communicating. There’s kind of energy there. We have the potential for a television show, it’s Post Secret, that we’re working on. That’s one of the reasons I’m here in California. I’m also looking for ways to donate the whole archive to an institution, maybe a museum, or a university. Try and set up something lasting, or like a legacy.
Bryan Wish:
Wow. It’s neat how you’ve kind of thought about this impact in a way that it can carry on beyond you. It’s like, what’s it called, like estate planning for the impact you want to have on the world, and how to carry that forward. Interesting. I mean, that’s like a whole new category of business out there. Who knows? Anyways
Frank Warren:
I know of a lot of other projects similar to mine, with this archive of items. It’d be wonderful. I mean, I don’t know how it’s going to happen, but if there could be an institution that would house four or five or six of these projects, it could be really, really cool. I mean, imagine an institution you could go to and see a great Post Secret exhibit, and then right next to it you could see The Museum of Broken Relationships. You know?
Bryan Wish:
Yeah.
Frank Warren:
All these objects from people who are at a bad relationship, and tell a story about this object that connects to their heartfelt breakup. Then next to that, there’s a Dear World, where there’s photographs of writing something special to you on your physical body. There’s a picture of it. There’s hundreds of those photographs, and those stories. Found with Davey Rothbart. There’s all kinds of projects that we can kind of collectively bring together, and really create something special, I think. I don’t know who could do it, but I see the potential for it.
Bryan Wish:
Yeah. Wow. That’s really descriptive. I love about bringing it more into the physical experience. I’m also thinking, now, we’re kind of brainstorming, here, on the podcast, live, which is kind of fun. I’m thinking of this whole Web3 world as well, just creating digital kind of assets that can live on in the world. I might have something to share with you, there, after. That could be really… Anyways, it’s neat that you’re giving thought to, “Okay. How do I pass this on?” Continue the human experience around sharing these secrets, and creating that platform where it can live on without you. I mean, what a honorable way to do it, and with donations. Thanks for sharing that.
Frank Warren:
Yeah. Sure. The idea of archiving it in a physical location, or online, we’ve thought about that, too. There’s another project called The Sketchbook Project where people mail sketchbooks back-and-forth around the world. There’s thousands, literally, of these sketchbooks, all filled up with strangers, one page after another, telling a story, creating a picture. They travel the country, at least they used to, in a van. It’s like a mobile library. Maybe, we get four or five of these mobile exhibits, collectively, all across the country, together. How cool would that be?
Bryan Wish:
Now, that would be super cool. Yeah. There’s, I’m thinking of that hot dog van that goes around the country. You know? In the summers, and sells hot… It’s like what you’re doing with postcards, and creating these national, maybe global
Frank Warren:
Dude, I saw that vehicle two months ago in my neighborhood
Bryan Wish:
Oh, yeah?
Frank Warren:
… the big frankfurter and bun car, driving. It was amazing. Yeah
Bryan Wish:
Yeah. Imagine
Frank Warren:
I would do something like a Sprinter. You know those big Sprinter vans?
Bryan Wish:
Oh, my God. That’s so cool.
Frank Warren:
You park it. You pull out the exhibit. You stand them up, Plexiglas walls. People walk through, looking at the postcards. Then, at night, maybe you project big images of postcards on the side of the vans, live music. You know? There’s all kinds of ideas.
Bryan Wish:
A virtual experience. You know? This Oculus headsets. It’ll be good. Oh, man. We’re whiteboarding it out. This is great. Well, Frank, this has been an immense joy. I don’t know if you’ve ever shared some of these things, or if you get these questions on you, per se, versus your community, but I’ve truly felt honored to be able to kind of ask you, build a relationship with you, and just be able to share this story, and your stories, and be a part of what you’ve done in a meaningful way. I mean, thank you for your time. Where can people join your Patreon? Where can people buy your books? Where can people find you?
Frank Warren:
Well, thank you for that. Post Secret has been around for 17 years, and the website’s had over 800 million hits. We’ve never had one paid ad on the website. I’m so proud of that. That’s thanks to the Patreons. Visit Post Secret to see the postcards, and you can visit Patreon Post Secret to find out more about how you can become a member. Then, the big ask is, “Mail in your secret.”
Bryan Wish:
Mail it to, should I share the address on here?
Frank Warren:
Sure, sure. I’m going to take it away, but you can do a screenshot, maybe, and just write an email.
Frank Warren:
Yeah. That’s what I’ll do. We’ll put it in the link. Just send it over
Frank Warren:
Yeah, yeah. For sure.
Bryan Wish:
… out. Okay. That would’ve been fun live. Frank, thank you. We’ll definitely send the people your way, and I appreciate the opportunity to do this with you on a Wednesday afternoon.
Frank Warren:
Brian, it was a great pleasure. Thanks for your time.
Bryan Wish:
Absolutely.
Frank Warren:
Cheers.
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This post was previously published on Arcbound.
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The post Frank Warren: One Bike Accident Away From Vulnerability appeared first on The Good Men Project.